pro trucking version

[Dan Lawyer]

FYI, DeLorme has gotten and updated it's POI database for all the major truck stops you posted files for. Thanks, now we have three data sources for the same POI data, each with records in the right place, each with records in the wrong place. As I've always said, nobody has perfect data, and nobody ever will.

Lat/lon is in the eyes of the reporter, the accuracy of the GPS that took it at the time, and the mood of the person with the GPS at the time the readings were taken. Were they just driving by and too lazy to turn in, or no place to park, is the lat/lon in the center of the roof of the building, or in the parking lot 1000' from which door on which street.

Anyone seriously planning a route and needing to know exactly where truck stops are, should verify locations with an online map service with aerial data. You can use the lat/lon from the program (rt mouse click on the POI and select Info, then copy the Mouse Click Position) and paste it into the websites search. If it's there, it will be obvious, if not look around. When you find it, you can make a fourth POI on the map

I have as yet to see one of these that you really needed to know exactly where they are, as there are signs for them and their exit numbers well before you even get to them, and they are so big you can't possibly miss them.

[Sanaghan]

Anyone seriously planning a route and needing to know exactly where truck stops are, should verify locations with an online map service with aerial data. You can use the lat/lon from the program (rt mouse click on the POI and select Info, then copy the Mouse Click Position) and paste it into the websites search.

Dan, I disagree. That only works if
- The map was properly Orthoimagery Quadrangles were properly flattened
- The DOQQ was then properly laid down on the map.

I think people are getting spoiled and forgetting these are navigational AIDS. The real navigational computer is between your ears. Or in my case, in the passenger seat. If you're within 300 feet of a highway gas station or coming up on a rest stop (which usually are announced with signs on the side of the highway) and you can't find it, that's scary.

Yes, we all want accurate data. But it will never be perfect.
Average a point outside your house.
Put it in a spreadsheet.
Repeat every three days for four months.
Watch the drift.

But they are all getting better and better over time.

Nedra, DeLorme can only gather information form sources they can verify they have paid permission to use. We can submit corrections, but they have to be able to verify them independently. When I submitted my Grand Canyon updates, I submitted them with my original track logs, or files traced from files I downloaded from DeLorme. I had more roads, but could not use them as I imported the GPX from DeLorme into Google Earth. I was able to add new roads that were not visible in DeLorme, but DeLorme could not use them as it wasn't their data.

[Dan Lawyer]

Ok, here is an example. This is the SA08 screenshot of it's location for a Pilot Travel Center, along with a Google aerial map of it. The Discover file and jwilhelm121's file have it in the same place. The DeLorme POI is off.

Just for grins, I checked a number of these, and the results are all variable, within a few minutes of doing this on all three data sources, there was bad data locations in each when compared to each other, and then the aerial data.

I agree, the maps may be off, but if they are, then all the data is off, aerial photos and digital roads. I'll still bet my last SS check that when I get to this exit, that's exactly where this truck stop will be, physically, and that's all I care about.

What's a shame is that there isn't one source with all accurate data, so the best we can do is compare and as Sanaghan said, remember, all this is just navigational aids. When I get there, if the truck stop isn't there, I'll go back to my origional navigating source, having my wife ask someone in a gas station where something is

[Sanaghan]

Ask? You have the option of asking?

[Nedra]

I hate to tell you Dan, but it's EASY to miss them. The general public doesn't pay close attention to the signage like truck drivers do.

As for the need to know exactly where they are... well... that depends on the weather. In driving rain or a whiteout, you really need to know exactly. In most weather you can see it. I passed up a truck stop I knew quite well once cause a tornado had just gone through and taken all the lights out and it would have been too dangerous to stop.

Truckers, RVers & others pulling trailers need a reasonably accurate location, as turning around and going back the other way to get to a location can be both awkward and dangerous. While RVers may choose where they'll stop for the night during the day while parked for lunch or a rest stop, truck drivers usually are making that decision at the last moment, their decision can be changed by availability of parking or lack of it. While the signage tells them if the location is to the R or L of the freeway, once there, you may have to make another R / L turn decision and that's where your sample maps indicate what can be a problem.

As you said, having DOQQ or SAT10 info to compare with the map, whether on your own system or via Google, helps a lot, except when the location you're looking for is new. Of course, it's a bit more challenging when the driver is solo, not team, or an RVer without any passengers.

Anyone seriously planning a route and needing to know exactly where truck stops are, should verify locations with an online map service with aerial data.

I have as yet to see one of these that you really needed to know exactly where they are, as there are signs for them and their exit numbers well before you even get to them, and they are so big you can't possibly miss them.

[jwilhelm121]

Edit: Please don't hit the quote button and repeat the entire conversation in the post above yours, every time. If we need to see the prior conversation, it's already there. Excessive quoting clutters up the thread and makes it hard to read. Quote only the applicable part, and only if needed. The "reply" button lets you reply without placing the quoted conversation inside. Thanks.
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I TOTALLY AGREE ! Not all Exits have on/off ramps in the direction that a 77' or longer Truck needs. If a Truck driver gets on the wrong ramp because of poor signage, He/She may have to drive MILES just to turn around- possibly violating bridge/ local laws to do so. Also TREEs grow and can Hide TRUCK STOPS !
Jon

[Dan Lawyer]

As I have been driving a 40' RV all over the country during the last 10 years, I understand the requirements for knowing where things are before you get to them, and fully understand missing an exit or taking a wrong one and then having to get back where your supposed to be.

At the same time, if I was driving a 77' truck for a living and planning routes, I would also have the very best software available, "for truck drivers", and I would be glad to pay the extra bucks for it, because one fine, accident, or tow, could pay for the software a dozen times over. I don't know flip about this software, except that I know it exists, cost a couple hundred bucks, but I also know it has all kinds of extra data that your will never find in Street Atlas. I also assume the company producing this trucking software wouldn't be in business if the data wasn't very accurate.

I would be planning my route in the trucking software, and then because I know it doesn't have the features that DeLorme products do, I would be duplicating the route in SA and using it for the trip. At the same time, when I copied the route, I would confirm everything that was imported in it, and make notes in SA to match things I needed from the trucking software. The trucking software would also be with me in the truck on the laptop and the route in printed form as a backup. I don't make a living with my RV, but I would never drive it without paying the bucks for Road-Side Assistance insurance, just as I would never drive a truck without the best possible software for the routes I would have to make.

I know that customers (including me from an RV standpoint) have been wanting DeLorme to create a trucking version for at least the last decade that I've been helping customers with the products. They haven't yet, but we will keep trying and hoping. They do keep adding features that help, and there is lots of data available that we can add to the program in the meantime. But it isn't trucking software, and I sure wouldn't be using it for trucking routes that my livelihood counted on.

[RegB]

I have reached the tipping point.
With a 40ft gooseneck trailer that I've crossed the country several times with using Street Atlas, I feel the need for something MUCH closer to a commercial rig package.

At $200 (minus the cost of moving to SA8) CoPilot from ALK Technologies will be my new mapping/routing/tracking software. I may keep SA7 plus installed just for the phones, maybe...

[Nedra]

Reg, I wish you well. Personally I think it helps to have both softwares, so I recommend you keep one of the SA versions installed along with it.

You need the truck version of CoPilot so you get the truck stop locations, and road restrictions. Without a GPS it's $200. and with a GPS it's $300. and if you wish Canadian Map Data, that's an additional $50.

For many years, the only product ALK offered was PCMiler, for $2000. for the basic program, and $2000. for each segment of street mapping. Another company brought out ProMiles (I think that's the name) for around $800. and since then, CoPilot has come out, but it's hard to get a professional driver to spend $200 for a mapping program because, while their biggest business expense (fuel) has more than doubled in cost, their pay has increased very little. Also, a lot of professional drivers are too cheap to spend the money on mapping programs.

[RegB]

Reg, I wish you well. Personally I think it helps to have both softwares, so I recommend you keep one of the SA versions installed along with it.

You need the truck version of CoPilot so you get the truck stop locations, and road restrictions. Without a GPS it's $200. and with a GPS it's $300. and if you wish Canadian Map Data, that's an additional $50.

For many years, the only product ALK offered was PCMiler, for $2000. for the basic program, and $2000. for each segment of street mapping. Another company brought out ProMiles (I think that's the name) for around $800. and since then, CoPilot has come out, but it's hard to get a professional driver to spend $200 for a mapping program because, while their biggest business expense (fuel) has more than doubled in cost, their pay has increased very little. Also, a lot of professional drivers are too cheap to spend the money on mapping programs.

Actually I really don't NEED the truck stop info.
The interstates are just about LINED with service areas that sell diesel fuel, there are signs on the highways that tell which fuel, motel and food chains have outlets. For THAT I can just make a real time decision whether to stop or go to the next one.

Maybe ALK has seen the light, I think they are going for VOLUME !
20 times more sales at 1/10 the price would be an OK deal (-:
Given that software manufacturing costs are very low.

I'll continue to use my little yellow bug on a wire, works well.

[Nedra]

Actually, if you're an RVer, you should have the truck stop information. There are times when it's the only place you can get in and out of without getting into trouble.

CoPilot is not the same program as PCMiler for 1/10 the price; it's a greatly scaled down version.

AND if you don't get the truck version, I don't think you get the info on roads to avoid! And while you think you can real-time find places you can pull your RV into, I really don't think their non-truck version has the database that tells you what roads to stay away from due to low bridges, weight limited bridges, etc. etc.

[RegB]

The user manual is available from their support page.
From the copy I downloaded it seems to be fully functional CoPilot Truck.

The only version "above" CoPilot Truck Laptop 9 appears to be "CoPilot Fleet Center", nice if you need to track a fleet of vehicles, e.g. run a dispatch center, etc.

Again; diesel, lodging and junk food availability is signposted along the interstates, the exit ramps have further signs that get you all the way there.
I'm running a 1 ton pick-up with a 40ft gooseneck trailer. Anywhere a semi with a 48 ft trailer can go in/out of ...I can usually manage. I can get it in/out of places that motorhomes can't due to their wheelbase and height, though I don't like spinning the trailer at 90 degrees to the truck (-:
I may be sloppy about this, but on coast to coast runs I do NOT plan every fuel and feed stop ahead of time. Every 3 hours for food and bathroom, when my range is down to 100 miles for fuel, whichever comes first.

[Nedra]

You missed all of what I meant, Reg.
CoPilot Truck is what I recommended. It's fully functional, but it is way scaled down from PCMiler which was 10X more expensive. and PCMiler is the version I was referring to which does NOT have street level mapping for $2000. I was not referring to CoPilot Fleet Center.

If you can go where 48 ft semi trailers can go, then you DO need the truck information. Luckily for you there are places that will allow RVers in which will run off semi's. I know what a 1ton pickukp with a 40' trailer is... That's what my husband and I drove when we commercially delivered RV's to market. You have height and length limitations that a non-trucking program won't help you on. And with your trailer, you already found you can get into some really awkward turning situations. The truck version knows which roads are NOT recommended for semi's and you should also avoid all those roads. Those were the concerns I was trying to make clear. I simply tried to indicate you should get the truck version of the program since they have one.

For example, with ANY semi, or motorhome, or ANY kind of trailer, you're not allowed on any parkways in the northeastern states! A truck spefic program gives you the information needed to stay out of trouble in these situations. The overpasses are gorgeous, and some are 10' clearance! Truck specific programs include databases indicating which roads are dangerous for ANY vehicle with trailer to travel.

You sound like you're trying to argue with me and I'm just trying to help you by:
1) recommending you run SA200x AND CoPilot together!
2) get the truck version of CoPilot!

That's all.

[RegB]

Yep, I guess I missed it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Supposedly CoPilot Truck Laptop 9 INCLUDES PCMiler*20, at least according to ALK's web site. I can't find ANY add-ons to bring the price up to anywhere near a $2K package.

I'm looking HERE;
http://www.alk.com/copilot/truck_lpt.asp
haz-mat, 53ft routing, exportable state fuel tax reports, etc.

I'll call them and ask about the $2K to $200 difference,
whats missing ?, what else should I buy ?
how do I get back to $2K ?
etc.

[Nedra]

CoPilot Truck probably includes the truck information from basic PCMiler, but PCMiler is the $2K program, so it can't include it all and yet cost less. Software companies don't every charge less for one program and include ALL components of a much more expensive program. It that were the case, all the companies would get rid of PCMiler and change over to CoPilot. PCMiler was out long before CoPilot.... it's not CoPilot with a bunch of add-ons. They no longer post the price of PCMiler from what I can see. I just know it from meeting them at the Truck Shows.

The CoPilot add-on for a charge is the Canadian map data which is included in SA200x !!!

All you need is CoPilot truck version for use with your RV and the Canadian data if you go to Canada.

When I told them at a show $2K was too much to charge a single owner/operator for use in his one truck, they were offended and not very friendly, so I really don't think you'll gain anything by contacting them to ask about the price difference. Just be glad that, after telling me to basically go soak my head if I wasn't willing to spend $2K for a program for our one truck, they finally came out with a less expensive program which is CoPilot. The only thing you may need to buy is the Canadian Map data if you wish to go to Canada. But it's not productive to call them and discuss comparison of those two programs, from my experience.

And, like I keep repeating, keep one of your SA200x installed as well. From my experience, I feel sure you'll be pleased to have both on your computer.